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Description |
Called City Commission-5-Year Downtown Redevelopment Team meeting for Developer Interviews |
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Date |
1/9/2006 |
Location |
Palatka City Commission |
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Time |
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Speaker/Note |
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Call to Order |
Mayor Flagg |
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Reading of Meeting Call |
Mayor Flagg called the City Commission meeting to order and read the following call, dated December 15, 2005: TO MESSRS: MARY LAWSON BROWN, HERNAN AZULA, JAMES NORWOOD, GEORGE SANDERS
AND ALLEGRA KITCHENS: You
are hereby notified that a special meeting of the City Commission is called
to be held at the alternate meeting place of the City Commission, the Price
Martin Center, located at 220 N. 11th Street in the City of
Palatka, at 1:00 p.m. on Monday, January 9, 2006. The
purpose of the meeting is to conduct interviews with developers who have
submitted proposals per the Riverfront Development Request for Developer
Qualifications. /s/ Karl N Flagg
Karl
N. Flagg, MAYOR
All Commissioners acknowledged receipt
of a copy of the foregoing notice of a special meeting on the 15th day of
December, 2005 |
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Present |
Mayor Karl N. Flagg; Commissioners Mary Lawson Brown, Hernan Azula, James Norwood, George E. Sanders, and Commissioner Elect Allegra Kitchens |
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Also Present |
City Manager Allen R. Bush, City Attorney Donald E. Holmes, City Clerk Betsy Jordan Driggers, Planning Director Adam Mengel, Police Chief Gary Getchell, Fire Chief Ken Venables, Parks Supt. Jeff Norton, Main Street Manager Cathy Butler, Assistant Clerk Karen Venables |
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Call to Order - 5-year Downtown Redevelopment Planning Team |
Chairman Len Freeman called to order the 1-9-06 regular meeting
of the 5-year Downtown Redevelopment Planning Team; a roll-call established
that a quorum was present |
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Invocation |
Rev. Bob Bronkema, Pastor; 1st Presbyterian Church of Palatka |
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Pledge of Allegiance |
Police Chief Gary Getchell |
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Welcome |
Mayor Flagg welcomed everyone to this joint called meeting and turned the proceedings over to Len Freeman, Chairman of the Downtown Redevelopment Planning Team (the "Team") |
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Overview |
Len Freeman, Chairman, said today's meeting is the culmination of many years of work, in that they have all come together today to determine qualifications of potential developers for the Riverfront redevelopment project. This is the first of their efforts to begin the revitalization project. The purpose of today's meeting is to examine the qualifications of two potential developers, The Vestcor Companies and Brefrank/Palatka Riverwalk Company, which were chosen above all who submitted responses to the RFDQ. He noted that public comments will be taken after the developers have completed both presentations, and stated speaker cards for all speakers are required. |
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Brefrank/Palatka Riverwalk Company - David Weinstein and Gary Koolik |
Mr. Weinstein thanked the City Commission, Redevelopment Team and Staff for being so helpful in facilitating this presentation. They are tremendously pleased to be in the running as potential developers. They expect this interview will be a 'conversation' between them and the Planning Team as well as all others in the room. This is the beginning of a process to bring a vision to the City; before that happens, they need to spend time working with the community to reach a consensus of the best use of this land. |
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As to who they are, they are a family owned developer business that has been active for more than 20 years. Both he and Mr. Koolik will both be involved in making decisions, should they be selected. They have done a number of projects in partnership with other municipalities. They will show photos and discuss two of them; one was for the Village of Wellington. They developed a 500-acre piece of property for business use. They worked with the city, county and citizens to determine what the best use of the land was. They did a lot of work on infrastructure for vehicular and pedestrian traffic. |
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Another recent similar development was one they have in downtown Lake Worth, which they renovated into a mixed-use residential/business use property. It will be completed in February. Their project really helped to revitalize this downtown area, which was fairly downtrodden. They purchased a small parcel, did a lot of work with the CRA and community groups, and in large part due to their work, a large redevelopment is taking place in downtown Lake Worth today. They have also done some larger residential/golf communities with 500 or more units. In all, they have worked closely with communities and government bodies towards mutually acceptable developments. |
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They presented an example of their thoughts and vision in their RFDQ response. They want to work towards people living and working in downtown. Restaurants and entertainment will come with density resulting from people moving into the downtown area. There is also a marina planned to phase in as development grows; they believe there will be significant demand for a marina as the city grows. They do not want to create a large industrial-looking facility involving a lot of height that would dominate any other uses. This will be phased in with no real facility on the city park or riverfront site, so there would be no structure that would block the riverfront on this site; other sites are better suited for that purpose. |
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They have also included a site for 400 parking spaces in a way that the parking is hidden from view. Ingress is from 2nd Street; it will be surrounded by a variety of retail and residential uses. It is important to them to keep the riverfront park as a public facility; it should always remain that way. They would like to integrate this property with walkways, etc. and make it a part of Downtown. |
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The style of the development would need to be consistent with what is in already Downtown Palatka, including its height. This would not be a towering structure. They would also like to try to keep the facade of the buildings on the 100 Block or at least replicate the style, should that not be possible. They would not want to bring in a newer or different architectural style. They brought with them and passed around one photo that showed the type of architectural style they envision. As with everything else, they will reach a consensus of what the community would like to see. |
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They then asked for questions and discussion. |
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Rating Criteria |
Mr. Freeman moved into the rating criteria phase. Pre-prepared questions were asked. |
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Mike Curtis inquired as to Ranking Question #3 (see ranking criteria filed) - Mr. Weinstein said in the Lake Worth project, they put the parking inside the building. They hire specialists to provide input in this area; sometimes it involves closing certain streets and opening others. Until the project is decided, you don't know where the pedestrian access will be. As to this project, they think Memorial Parkway will stay open, and the access will come from that area. |
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Michelle Jeansonne -- as to Question #7 related to a project timeline - Mr. Weinstein said a lot of this depends upon how much time they spend working with the city and Planning Team on what is going to be built. Once they arrive at a plan as to what will be built, they will probably spend around 2 years on construction, but it depends upon whether or not there will be phases. As to public input, they believe it is very important that the public participates in this project as much as possible. Some projects have gone fairly quickly, and some have taken as long as a decade. They anticipate much public discussion, and how long it takes will depend upon how much discussion and participation there is. |
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Mr. Mark Miles said he was a commissioner in Wellington when this developer began this same development process, and their project there is almost complete. They are true gentlemen and it has been a pleasure working with them. They have been true to their word and worked tirelessly with the public to complete the project. |
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Wes Larson said they mentioned leaving Memorial Parkway as an entrance for vehicular traffic, and asked if they would be willing to use it for walking traffic. Mr. Koolik said it depends upon the usage of the project. Mr. Larson asked if they plan to have any offsite amenities or activities. Mr. Koolik said they have not envisioned purchasing other assets or properties within downtown, which is not to say that successful development will not take place on other properties. |
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Jim Melfi asked what stumbling blocks developers come across with programs like this, and how can they better anticipate those? Mr. Weinstein said no one will ever be 100% happy. It is important that this Team and the commission share a vision for what they want to see happen. Uncertainty becomes a stumbling block. They are facilitators for the City's vision. There will be a lot of discussion and opinions, but until consensus is reached, it is hard to say how long that will take. Then there are construction costs and other factors to consider. |
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Alex Sharp asked if the 400 spaces for parking will be public parking or restricted parking? Mr. Koolik said that is something that will need to be worked out. People who operate a business need to know they will have dedicated parking. There also needs to be public parking for public uses. They will need to work that out with the City. The actual number of spaces is based upon a calculation, which differs for differing types of retail and residential. Mr. Sharp asked as to the retail and residential facilities, will be they leased facilities and will there be requirements as to who can and can't come in there, and will there be a property manager? Mr. Weinstein said they may not want to see national chains come in; they are quite far off from determining who the users will be at this point. They usually attract an anchor and work from there. |
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As an example of other restaurants they have attracted, as to the Lake Worth project, a Starbucks just moved in on the corner. There were no other national chains in there. They have attracted restaurants such as Chili's and have a gamut of local tenants. |
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Mr. Sharp asked how they are going to incorporate the walkway under the bridge into their plans. Mr. Koolik said they will definitely incorporate that into their plans, especially using the premise that the riverfront park will stay public. |
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Margaret Vietti asked what their 'phased approach' would be. Mr. Weinstein said they haven't determined which building will be built first, but will focus on getting residential in there first, as that will spur growth. |
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Linda Myers said there is also a 'rails to trails' connection coming across the bridge, and this will need to be integrated into this area. She asked how they plan to make this part of the City and not a stand-alone facility, and how they will use it to encourage public use of the riverfront park. Mr. Koolik said they haven't done a project of that nature; they have done projects that have brought different parts of the town together. They plan to keep the public park public and tie it into downtown architecturally. This should act as a catalyst to encourage others to take care of and upgrade their property. If done properly, it will spur people who own buildings and to put money into their buildings or sell them. If people get excited about this project, they will put tenants into their buildings and fix them up. You need to create a place where people want to be. As long as it stays public and people see it as theirs, everything else will start moving along well. |
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Linda Myers said Question #1 is relevant, and asked if they have submitted all required financial paperwork. Mr. Weinstein said they have a letter from their CPA stating their capacity to do a project of this size. If they didn't believe they had the financial capability to complete this project, they wouldn't be here. They don't have officers; they are a privately held company. Should they be awarded the job, they will submit this information. At this time, they have submitted the letter and two references. |
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Robert Taylor said there is a 16-point questionnaire they would like to have answered, for which he would have liked to have garnered the answers from their presentation. He asked that they respond to these questions once they have completed their individual questions. |
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Also, in their proposal, Mr. Taylor said they proposed a mix of residential and commercial usage, and read off the square footage of each use. He asked how they came up with that delineation. Mr. Weinstein said they haven't decided one way or the other what will be built on the site; this will be decided by the community. They will need to supplement the residential they will be building with retail. This seems to be a good mix of retail to support the residential. They included the hotel, as that was included in the EDSA plan. It may not be the best place for a large hotel, but at least a small hotel would be appropriate. The marina facility they feel is appropriate to support the residential and other usages. |
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Mr. Koolik said at the end of the day, people want to know what they can fit on the property, and they will sit down with their planners and ask them to 'max it out.' Mr. Taylor said a concern with the downtown merchants is that creating a project like this will 'compete’ with existing merchants. He asked what strategy they have to alleviate those fears. Mr. Weinstein said their plan is to bring people downtown, and if this is done right, there should be enough people to support both the existing and new businesses. |
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Their submittal was based upon all the things the RFDQ asked for. If, during the process, they find that more residential is appropriate, it may evolve into a more residential area. It may fill more of a need for services and offices. The downtown is intricately related to this piece; they will both come together to create the overall project. This is a focal point of downtown. People that are invested downtown with shops, etc. like pedestrian traffic, but they like to see cars there, too. Part of the project should serve to bring traffic back into the downtown area by enticing traffic off the main route. |
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Mr. Taylor said one of the concepts seem to be to 'hide the cars' behind multi-story buildings. He noted right now the tallest buildings are three-story buildings and asked how they see how these buildings will fit into the present scale? And would they consider an alternate scheme? Mr. Weinstein said the building that faces downtown is three stories high; the others are four stories. They did that deliberately. They need a certain amount of mass to get the amount of people down there that they need. Mr. Taylor concurred, and said the challenge will be to make these two parcels an integral part of the City without it being overpowering. He likes replicating the facades and maintaining public spaces. |
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Randy Braddy said he'd like to refocus on qualifications of the developers. This is the reason they are here today. His first question is whether or not the developer can provide matching funds so that the City can acquire grants for developing the park. Mr. Koolik said they have the ability to match funds, and would be inclined to do so; they will do whatever needs to be done to get this project off the ground, and will be whatever the City wants them to be. |
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Mr. Braddy asked what their key strengths are and why they should be selected. Mr. Weinstein said they are a family group; they don't take on very many projects and are selective as to their projects. They don't leave a project until its finished, no matter how long it takes. They are the two decision makers. If their name is on it, it will be right. |
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Larry Pritchett said, as to the longstanding tradition of festivals in the community, they want to revitalize unproductive empty space, but also want to continue to use festivals as promotional tool. He asked if they see any conflict between the revitalization project and downtown festivals, and whether or not they see an opportunity to partner with festival organizers and the City to move those festivals forwards. Mr. Koolik said they are big fans of festivals and believe they are important. They participate in them and fund them. People come to festivals and if they like what they see, they come back. The more festivals the better; it will help the downtown to grow. Festivals get better as development continues. |
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Rev. McGriff asked if they have done a similar project to Palatka's; Mr. Weinstein said the Lake Worth project is most similar; it is close to the water, runs along the main road that takes the public across the bridge; is located in a vacant, downtrodden spot that had seen better days. For the most part, people are happy with this project, which spurred redevelopment in the downtown. Now that they have almost completed it, more than 50% of the space has been filled. It is very similar to this concept. This type of development project is not unique to Palatka, although Palatka has a more beautiful waterfront. |
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As to question #15, Rev. McGriff asked how they will work with the private sector in integrating this project with the existing downtown. Mr. Weinstein said they will solicit everyone's input on this, including the existing downtown businesses. As the project moves forward, they will be working in a partnership with existing merchants. Far from taking away 'their' business, they will be attracting more business for them. |
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Ray Hall asked them to go through each question that has not been covered. She noted that she'd like to see a picturesque scene as she comes across the bridge. Palatka is not that attractive as it is; she'd like to see a more Victorian-style development. |
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Mr. Koolik said there are buildings in Downtown that lack "TLC" and have seen better times, but every city and town have something to build upon. It is always exciting to go to a place that has different-looking buildings that have been built during differing periods. Some people purchase downtown buildings when no one else will, and then hold on to them. Those are always the people who are most committed to bringing them back. They may look ugly now, but when the buildings are cleaned up and brought back, they will look unique. People who visit will see something they will only see in Palatka, and not St. Augustine, Daytona, or wherever. Mrs. Hall said she doesn't like the picture they passed around. |
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Robert Taylor asked if they have given thought to how the historic church at the South end of the property (First Presbyterian) will be integrated; Mr. Weinstein said they think its a great building and will work to incorporate its use and look into the project. |
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As to a business plan, Mr. Weinstein said they don't have one yet; it is a little premature, even if they knew exactly what would be built at the site. The 'highest and best use' of this property is probably different to everyone, and is maybe not its truest 'highest and best use,' compared to what could be there, but will be as far as what people would like to see there. |
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Mr. Miles asked if they are prepared to change this plan, perhaps radically, to adapt it to what the community wants. Mr. Weinstein said absolutely, 100%. This is a 'first step' and they were trying to integrate into their proposal what they thought the City was looking for. |
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Mrs. Myers asked what their long-range plans for the City are -- do they just come in, do the development, and leave, or do they stick around? Mr. Koolik said they don't sell anything, and have a vested interest in staying in the community. They get fairly involved in their communities. Most people will know who they are and will have had some type of interaction with them. |
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Mr. Freeman asked to hear more about their experience in working with developments where festivals have historically taken place on the real estate in question. Mr. Weinstein said in Wellington, they actually gave space to one festival, and participate in cultural affairs. Lake Worth has cultural festivals every week, and they participate in those and have contributed to them. They have gotten better. |
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As to the value of the real estate, Mr. Freeman noted they will maintain a property management office, and like to hold properties long-term. He asked how they propose to acquire the real estate for their development. Mr. Weinstein said they would propose to purchase it from the City and Housing Authority, and intend to own it long-term. As to their architects, they don't keep an in-house architect. They have two other family members and a CPA. They have maybe a few people, or as many as 20 - 30 on a project. They like to use the best of whomever they need; there is no 'large infrastructure.' The two of them will spend a lot of time on site. As to their construction, they have used pretty much all the large construction companies. Mark Weiner is a very good architect and they will probably use his firm; he did the conceptual drawings. Depending upon the final product, he may not be the best one to use. |
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Mr. Freeman said as to the genesis of this project, this is the continuation of an issue that was forced upon the downtown 25 or 30 years ago, and as a result, the thriving business district is now located several miles from downtown. They have a Chili's already, just not downtown. What is the draw they will use to get the traffic away from Hwy. 19 and back downtown? Mr. Weinstein said people are pretty savvy; they like to walk, be outside, and be part of a community. You don't get that from the Hwy. 19 Corridor. They will still drive there to do some of there business, but a project like this will bring back the 'uniqueness' of downtown, and it will attract people. People will come back when it becomes a place they want to be, where they feel a sense of community. |
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Mr. Freeman asked if they will be looking for community partners, specifically local business or real estate partners in general. Mr. Koolik said they would welcome partnering with anyone in the community, and certainly other professionals, like architects, engineers, real estate brokers, etc. They will try to use local talent if possible. They try to put the money back into the community. The money is supposed to be in Palatka. |
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Ms. Jeansonne asked as to Question #8, whether or not 90 days is do-able on executing a development agreement; Mr. Weinstein said yes, absolutely. As to public/private partnerships, they want to emphasize that a riverfront marina would be not just be private, but a public space, also. They believe that is important. The City Commission acts as the 'ward' for public property, and they understand that completely. At the end of the day, public spaces should be maintained and kept public, which makes for good development. Neither the public nor the private can make a great development when working apart. |
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Mr. Melfi asked them to elaborate on "family owned." Mr. Weinstein outlined the family's founding members, which are his grandfather, uncle and Mr. Koolik’s father-in-law, and said he and Mr. Koolik are "cousins by marriage." His uncle and Mr. Koolik's father-in-law are still actively involved in the business. |
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They have been in business over 50 years as an S-type corporation. |
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PHA Questions |
Jon Nelson asked how long they anticipate it will take to build the entire project. Mr. Koolik said 2 - 3 years to build the entire project, maybe less. Mr. Nelson asked if the Federal Government was ever one of their 'silent partners? Mr. Koolik said they have had cities or CRAs as partners, but not the federal government. As to a major relocation of people as a component, they have not done something like that previously. They understand that PHA owns one block. Mr. Nelson said relocation will play a major role in how quickly their development moves forwards. Mr. Weinstein said they understand that this involves people's lives. |
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Commissioner Questions and comments |
Commissioner Norwood said the Commission is very committed to public input. He noted they referred to the Lake Worth project often, and asked how they came to a consensus as to what to do there, and how long they anticipate it will take to get a consensus here. Mr. Weinstein said from first being awarded the project, it took around 18 months to 2 years from purchase of the property to beginning construction. It involved many, many public hearings. The public input still continues. They are in it for the "long haul." As to Lake Worth, it was financed through TIF funds, and those approvals took some time. |
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Mr. Bush asked if they are selected, how soon do they anticipate sitting down and working out details with the Team and coming to a point that they will begin discussions on the final project? Mr. Koolik said they will begin discussion immediately upon award. |
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Commissioner Sanders asked how they plan to coax property owners who may resist the redevelopment into the effort? Mr. Weinstein said because they confined their plan to the site itself, adjourning property owners will participate at their own pace. If there is an owner who wants to keep their property as it is, that's up to them, but in most cases, redevelopment acts as a catalyst for private owners' redevelopment. |
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Don Holmes, City attorney, asked if, in Lake Worth, they entered into a, for lack of a better term, "development agreement?" Mr. Koolik said they entered into an agreement with the City of Lake Worth CRA, which included certain timelines, responsibilities, aesthetics, and gave them certain rights as to how the development would look. In the end, it went to the Council for final approval. The piece of property was not owned by the City; it was an old abandoned bank building which they purchased, and then approached the City as to its redevelopment. They will send Mr. Holmes a copy of that agreement. |
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Mr. Holmes asked if they contemplate that an agreement would include assignation of their rights under the agreement prior to completion of the project? Mr. Weinstein said they can negotiate the assignment provision. Mr. Holmes asked, as to acquiring ownership of the land, would it make any difference if they did not own the land without an agreement in place for financing purposes? Mr. Weinstein said no; they would not want to acquire the piece until they knew exactly what the agreement would be, so the answer is no. |
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Commissioner Brown said they have been looking at eco-tourism as a way to bring people into the town, and thought they should know that. They are a Champion City and have 5 and 10 year plans in place. |
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Commissioner Azula thanked them for showing interest in the City, saying they all love their City and want what is right for the City. They have something very unique in this part of the state. |
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Commissioner-elect Kitchens thanked them for their willingness to include the public in all of their processes; she said Palatka belongs to its citizens. |
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She asked if they would be willing to remove the marina from the project if the public rejects it? Mr. Weinstein said at the end of the day, it will be up to the consensus of the public. Why they wouldn't want to have some integration of the water and the town is not understandable. This is not set in stone, but they need to tie the development into the water, because that is what makes Palatka great. They would consider removing it if public opinion is overwhelmingly against it. |
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Commissioner-elect Kitchens asked, as to blocking the public's view, if public opinion is against blocking the view down St. Johns Avenue, would they be willing to not put in a dock at the end of the St. Johns Avenue extension? Mr. Weinstein said yes. |
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Commissioner-elect Kitchens asked if they have talked with representatives of the Blue Crab festival, and would they incorporate their needs into these plans? Mr. Weinstein said they haven't spoken to Blue Crab representatives, but yes, they would be willing to integrate their needs into their plans. |
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As to Incorporating the remodeling of the 100 block buildings instead of demolishing them; Mr. Weinstein said they would like to incorporate and refurbish them but don't know how feasible that would be. Their second choice would be to remodel them. |
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Mr. Miles noted Brefrank has been a major contributor to almost every special event in the village of Wellington over the past few years. They would do the same here. |
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PUBLIC COMMENTS |
Mr. Freeman said they will take audience questions at this time. |
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Deborah Welky Miles, 414 River Street, said she owns two homes on River Street, purchased because of the river. They also own Elsie Bell's Antique Mall at 114 N. 4th Street. She was formerly the special events and marketing director for the Village of Wellington for almost 15 years. Way before Brefrank's project was built, they sent people to the Village to talk to the people about what they wanted to see. Brefrank is the primary sponsor for the local Arts event. They are an organization that can be trusted. It sounds like they don't do big projects, but the one they did in Wellington was a huge project. They were ruthlessly interrogated by the Council and residents. They went to every length and met with every group to address every concern so that residents would get what they wanted. The finished project is what they wanted and integrates beautifully not only with the surrounding buildings, but also with what the community wanted. She hopes they will give them their vote. |
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Tim Parker, 32 Oak Street, Chief Deputy, Putnam Co. Property Appraiser, said the County is considering moving most if not all courthouse offices out of downtown, and asked how that will impact their project. |
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Mr. Koolik said he was disappointed to hear that news, but doesn't anticipate it will have an adverse affect on their development. |
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Dr. Michael Heeb, 122 William Bartram Trail, Welaka, said he is a scientist and oceanographer, and has considerable experience to a marina. The marina as proposed in this particular rendition is rather naive. As with a marina, A first class laboratory costs a lot of money and can be very productive, but a 2nd class laboratory is a waste of money. This is not a true marina; it is like a parking lot for boats. Marinas need facilities like a small town; gas, parking, services, etc. He asked if they would be willing to hire a professional marina developer to develop a true marina, and if not, to please not add a marina. They hear constantly that people don't want to lose the view of the river; to that end, will they consider moving it further south? Mr. Weinstein said they would consider hiring a professional designer, and they would, but their initial concept is to keep this contained to a certain area. They wouldn't want to put large infrastructures right on the riverfront. Dr. Heeb said he is concerned that they will build a small marina and then add onto it; if they keep it small, it won't be serviceable to the boating public. |
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David Watt, 409 W. Peniel, asked for more specifics addressing the differing public opinions on the near-shore waterfront area as it relates to marinas. What process would they go through to make certain that whatever ends up being on the river is the most beneficial? Mr. Weinstein said the first component is many public meetings. More and more people will come on board as to a shared vision. The next variable is the permitting, and what can be built there. If you can't build a marina, you don't do it. Mr. Watt asked what they would do to acquire the experience and skill to develop waterfront downtown property, as they've stated they have little experience there. Mr. Koolik said they would identify and hire the required professionals. |
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Conclusion |
Mr. Freeman thanked Messrs. Weinstein and Koolik for their presentation for answering their many questions. |
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Intermission |
Intermission was called in order to allow time for Brefrank/Palatka Riverwalk Company to vacate the stage, and for Vestcor Companies to set up for its presentation |
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Call to Order |
Mayor Flagg called the meeting back to order and continued with the Orders of the Day. |
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Mr. Freeman introduced the development team from The Vestcor Companies, Inc., noting the emphasis for today's meeting is on Developer Qualifications, and asked that questions be limited to past history and developer qualifications. |
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The Vestcor Companies, Inc. |
Mr. Farid (Fred) Ashdji introduced Mark Farrell and Jack Diamond, presenters. He said Elite Hospitality came to Palatka in 1987 and purchased the Suburban Inn Motel; they owned it briefly. They then purchased land for a hotel, but then the Best Western broke ground for their hotel. They also bid against the City for the old Jail site, but lost. They also own the mini storage on Hwy 19. |
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Mr. Ashdji, speaking for Elite Hospitality, noted some of the Downtown looks like it did many years ago. They own the Holiday Inn on the riverfront. They would like to purchase the other side of the bridge and create the skyline for the City of Palatka. Each city "owns" its own skyline, and Palatka needs a unique one. It needs to be 'postcard perfect' as you come across the bridge. |
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As to their strengths, because they will own either side of the river, this will give both their company and the City an 'impact' and solid visual package. Palatka has its own heritage, and they would like to add to it. They want to preserve the 'old heritage' theme. |
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Their vision is to incorporate retail, residential housing, restaurants and adequate parking. As to residential, they want not only the residents to use the space, but also visitors. |
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As to their leadership team, he has worked for Vestcor since 1983. Elite Hospitality has been around since 1976 and is based in Daytona Beach. Their whole team lives within a 50-mile radius of Palatka. They have built hotels all over NE Florida. They like to enhance whatever community the go into. Their hotels are the best and they consistently receive the highest marks for them, and win numerous awards. Their Hampton Inn is the best in the chain. They have owned some hotels since 1976, and keep their properties; they have sold only a handful. Their philosophy is they build them and keep them; they don't build them to sell in order to make quick buck. They try to accommodate every neighbor's concerns and complaints, right down to where the garbage cans are located. They will try to answer the concern of every resident in the Community. |
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Not only to they own their hotels, they also manage them. |
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Mark Ferrell, CEO of the Vestcor Companies, said they are a family-owned company formed in 1983 by John Rood. They have developed over 8,000 residential units and own over 5,000 apartment units/luxury condominium units. They are currently purchasing property in Mayport to do a similar development to the one they have planned for Palatka. They are located in Jacksonville, and are excited to team up with Elite Hospitality on this project. They have great ideas, but they are flexible and are open to what everyone has to say. They will put forth their best effort to come up with something everyone will like. They have mixed-use experience. Trend Magazine has ranked them as a top developer in Florida and last year were chosen as Developer of the Year. They have a proven successful track record. |
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Jack Diamond, Rink Design, said he comes to Palatka often for special events. He is the principal owner of Rink and has been practicing as an Architect in Jacksonville for 35 years. They do a lot of master plans; they recently did one for Jacksonville that was the catalyst for downtown redevelopment in Jacksonville. They also do a lot of educational projects and performing arts centers. They've done libraries, student centers and life-care projects. They are committed to doing socially significant projects in their communities. |
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As to this project, every city with riverfront has recently rediscovered their riverfront. They all started with their riverfronts and grew away from it, but are now coming back to their roots. They are excited about this project. Elite Hospitality owns everything on the r/h side of the bridge (coming across it), and they are going to develop it. The left side presents a tremendous opportunity for them to develop park and public space as well as residential and retail, and this will act as a catalyst for redevelopment in the downtown. |
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The sketch is the 'initial concept' they came up with, based upon existing architectural designs. They will come in and listen to what the City and its citizens want. They will be the 'hands' that will help them create what they want their city to be. These two blocks are the key to downtown redevelopment. |
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As to the project timetable, they are ready and able to close within the 90-day period. It will take about 9 months for the architect to complete the design and begin construction; then it will take 2 to 2-1/2 years to complete the project, depending upon the market. |
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They propose to purchase the PHA high-rise building for $2 million and the City’s 100 Block for $1 million. They will give the City $250,000 to improve the waterfront sidewalks, bathrooms, dockage, and will provide matching funds for grants to improve the Riverfront Park. They will help their neighbors in the 200, 300, 400 etc. blocks redevelop their properties if asked. The closing date will depend upon when the attorneys can take care of the paperwork; presumably within 6 months. The funds will come mostly from Elite Hospitality and his brother (who is here tonight). They have many banks standing who have already given approval for this project with over $250 million ready to loan on this. Many local banks have shows interest in this project. |
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As to grants, they will help the City with their grants towards improving the waterfront. |
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Mr. Ferrell said there are many grants available to pay for infrastructure development. He knows here is no CRA on the riverfront, but there are other methods of getting grants. They have a good relationship with FDOT, who is building the riverwalk under the bridge to connect the two properties. |
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Mr. Ashdji showed a picture of the Hampton Inn in St. Augustine Beach, which is the best Hampton Inn in the chain. He also showed a photo of their newest hotel developed in conjunction with St. Augustine Beach. They work with the community and city to provide public amenities. He showed other hotel projects around NE Florida. |
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Mr. Ferrell showed photos of Vestcor's apartment projects around NE Florida. On the first, they were the contractor as well as the developer. One was an historic rehabilitation on E. Forsyth Street in Jacksonville with mixed condos and retail, with a parking garage. Another was a hotel built in 1926 on the River, rehabbed as residential apartments, retail space and parking; security and safety is an issue, as they wanted to attract people to live downtown. |
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One of their current projects is an 88-condo development on Lake Weir. |
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Mr. Diamond said they are showing these projects in order to show that they can do these projects. He showed mixed-use projects in Jacksonville Beach and Ortega Landing, which are pretty much sold out as they finish. They are currently working on a phased mixed residential/retail/commercial project at the King and the Bear at World Golf Village, which is almost sold out. Several more projects in Valencia Beach are also sold out. They have done all the projects at the Ponte Vedra Club for the Gate corporation. They are doing a master plan for Marineland. They have done the last three master plans for Downtown Jacksonville. When they started, there was no housing in downtown Jacksonville, and now there are more than 5,000 units. They also design interiors for high-end residential. They go from design all the way through construction to hanging the art on the wall. |
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Mr. Ferrell said they started a construction company called VCS some 10 years ago because they wanted things done right and on time. It has been very successful. He showed a clubhouse built in St. Pete Beach that has won national awards. |
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Mr. Rood said the architectural element is currently up in the air; they will work with the City and citizens to come up with that. The streetscapes will be done in conjunction with the City. As to future development, this is important. Development of these two blocks will create the incentive for others to come in to purchase and develop property. The marina development is the front door to people coming into the City. As to their master plan, Elite owns much property on the right side of the bridge (facing the waterfront) and the City owns the left side with the exception of the Church. He understands another downtown Church is currently buying up property in the area, as they believe the redevelopment will be a major factor in bringing folks back downtown. As a natural progression, the adjoining properties will become developable. A pier as a continuation of St. Johns Avenue would create a huge redevelopment. |
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One of the things the City would want to do is take a look at its basic infrastructure to accommodate future redevelopment. Streetscaping and lighting is extremely important to the downtown redevelopment. |
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The style of the development has not been determined at this point; it would be sensitive to the northern Florida vernacular. They want to create a lively streetscape; a 24-hour community. They want to encourage businesses that will support this. They need to provide plenty of shade and shelter to accommodate Florida's afternoon rainstorms, and 12-foot sidewalks. Covered arcades, awnings, canopies and brick pavers encourage people to get out and enjoy the pedestrian environment. |
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As to the image from the water, coming across the bridge, they want something significant that creates a 'postcard image' they would be proud of. Historically, architecture has responded to N. Florida climate with wide overhangs. They propose a 3 - 4 story development along St. Johns Avenue before it steps up to 7 stories along the Riverfront. Retail space could make this a tourist Mecca for the City. |
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As to Marina development, they have worked with professionals in development of other marinas. |
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Most projects have an 'icon' associated with it, and Palatka's project will have one that people will associate with Palatka. |
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Mr. Ashdji said as to the development, condo units will be 1, 2 or 3 bedrooms, they have not yet set a price unit. They would be willing to start this project as soon as they get the green light from the City. Elite has purchased four mobile home parks and 8 houses, realizing there will be a need for low-income housing, and are planning to build low-income housing away from the development site. They are sensitive to the need to affordable housing in the community. They are proud of what they have done with their other Florida mobile home parks, and own many in NE Florida. |
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Mr. Diamond said they proposed 23,000 sf of retail offices, 124 condo units; 50 next to the bridge and another 75 within the development; and 175 parking spaces to accommodate both retail unit and residential unit cars. The market study will determine the cost. Security will be a high priority. They estimate construction to begin in 9 months with 36 months to build-out. Mr. Ashdji said they estimate the project cost at around $52,000,000. After Phase I is completed, they will take the Riverfront Inn down and construct a hotel. The land behind the hotel will be a parking garage and additional parking if needed. |
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Their strength is that they own the right side of the bridge; if they could only work with the left side, they would feel like a 'bird with one wing.' They want to develop something with a distinguished look about it that the City will be proud of. Being able to develop both sides of the river has its advantages. They are committed to establishing a presence in Palatka. The development will be unique and suitable to the area. They have extensive experience in public/private relationships. They understand about working with city government and with the public, and look forward to working with the City on this wonderful development. |
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Panel Interview |
Michelle Jeansonne said they stated they currently have projects up and down the East Cost and other locations in Florida. She asked what their commitment is to establishing an office? Mr. Diamond said Elite and Mr. Ashdji will be the main contact points for the project. The project office will be on site. Tom Hurst is the project director all the way through the project and will be involved in the project day to day. He has extensive waterfront project experience and he and Mr. Hurst will be spending the majority of his time on this project. |
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Mr. Miles said they showed 124 units with 175 parking spaces which doesn't work out; Mr. Diamond said there is traditionally one covered space per unit and maybe one 'half space' and the rest is for retail. There is also on-street parking in addition to the parking garage, which can be extended on up. Their commitment was for parking to accommodate the condo units. They'd be happy to work with the City on additional parking for festivals and the like. |
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As to the marina, that is something they will work with the City in order to accomplish. They will work with the marina owner as to ownership or miscellaneous use of slips. If people are residents of the condos, they will want to purchase the slips, whether from the City or from Elite. It depends upon who is going to operate the marina. |
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Jim Melfi said he has knows Ashdji for 20 years; he always found him to be a person of great heart and compassion, and is a solid family man. He has had many conversations with him. They worked well with the community on the properties they built in St. Johns County. |
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Alex Sharp asked as to the construction and enhancements shown on the site plan on buildings outside of the project area. Mr. Diamond apologized for the confusion that this rendition caused, and said they didn't want to show this huge development that overshadowed the downtown. Downtown has tremendous character. The intent was to indicate growth going up St. Johns Avenue, not to show that they are developing it that growth. They want to encourage development for the rest of the city. They encourage growth and redevelopment. They are accustomed to coming up with incentive plans and master plans for the properties around their developments. Their development would be a failure if they didn't provide the synergy that takes the development up St. Johns Avenue. The more successful the City is, the more successful they are. They want everyone's property values to double and triple. |
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Margaret Vietti asked how they propose to obtain input from the public. Mr. Ashdji said they come up with the drawings, and then address the complaints as they come. Mr. Diamond said they need to manage the expectations of the City and citizens. This is a partnership; they want to be a part of the City. They need a focus-type group to brainstorm ideas with. In the end they have to make a decision based on dollars and cents, which will rule, but they have options. |
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Linda Myers said it is obvious they have experience with public input. She asked if they will have a public presence on site, and who the management will be. Mr. Ferrell said they hold developer meetings every other week, and he would be here for those. They will have a project superintendent and one other individual on site. He will probably be here every other day, and other consultants will be here on a daily basis. If there is a problem, he's very close; it is only a 30-minute commute for him. Mr. Ashdji said he will be on the job site every day; he has made a three-year commitment to this project. Fred Ashdji is the project manager, but they all add strengths and experiences. Mr. Ashdji said he chooses the best team he can. His company backs him up financially without question. |
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He has exceeded expectations in every community he has had a project in. They are the industry leaders; they are the best. When they begin a project, others follow suit. |
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Mr. Robert Taylor said they did an excellent job of answering the criteria, and thinks they have a good team. He appreciates their experience in master planning. The marina is going to one of the most difficult sales items on the agenda. The positioning will be a major sales effort to people in this community. Some people see marinas as beautiful boats, and others see it as noise and congestion. Being able to develop both sides of the property is an advantage. They are not a big city. Bringing people downtown through residential use is important. He asked if they were aware the Courthouse is moving out of Downtown. Mr. Ashdji said he would like to purchase it and build a hotel. |
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Mr. Diamond said they would like to develop St. Johns Avenue first and see how the market plays out; depending upon its strength or weakness, their plans may change. If housing is stronger, they go with more housing. If retail is stronger, they go with more retail. The market and community will determine what they do build. A total of 124 residential units is what they are looking at. |
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Randy Braddy congratulated them on their presentation and said he is a bit dazzled; he noted they are dancing faster than he can follow on many issues. As to the county courthouse building, he has always believed that that building and its annex were somewhat critical to the survival of Downtown Palatka, due to the government process and everything associated with it up and down St. Johns Avenue. Bottom line, it all closes up at 5:00 p.m. so there is no vibrant retail in the evenings. There should be some dialogue about the developer pursuing a land-swap focusing on hotel development on that area. |
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Mr. Braddy said they obviously have an expansive project in mind, and desire a continuing presence in the community. He'd like to hear them express their feelings and philosophy on exercising eminent domain over private property for development. Mr. Ashdji said he doesn't like this law. He came from a country whose government could take everything he owned; that is why he is in this Country. He does not agree with it in principle. It is the City's responsibility to take someone else's property. They may want to give it to him to develop and do something with. He doesn't even like seeing people's property auctioned off on the courthouse steps. |
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Larry Pritchett asked what they plan to do with the former Holiday Inn; he understands it is going through some refurbishing, but the design shows they don't plan to keep the building. The motel has historically served as a lodging area, and the only place to house small conferences. He goes to many conferences in places like St. Augustine, Jacksonville and Daytona, but his group will never come to Palatka. Their long-term plan means that Palatka will lose its only conference center. Mr. Ashdji said all their hotels have conference and meeting space. When they first purchased the Holiday Inn and started negotiating with Quality Inn to reopen it as a Quality Inn, they had to pass an expensive inspection. They understand the importance of having conference space. They plan to include public/meeting space in the new hotel. |
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Rev. James McGriff noted they gave a wonderful presentation. |
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Ray Hall concurred on the quality of the presentation, and said it is rather frightening that this company may end up owning much of downtown. She said it seems sad that the only affordable housing for those who can't afford a pricey condo is a mobile home. Mr. Ashdji said these are upscale mobile home parks that are better alternatives to apartments. Most cities don't have enough apartments. They own the mobile homes and the parks they are in. Mrs. Hall said she lives in one and had to evacuate three times last year due to adverse weather. |
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Mrs. Hall said they have created an architectural style for Palatka that doesn't exist She doesn't want to be a copy of St. Augustine. She hopes they will be more original that that. Mr. Diamond said the large overhang style originated with the Victorian style. They have no preconceptions. They had to create something that showed their capability. They will be sitting down with the citizens of Palatka to determine the architectural style. They are more than happy to work with them on style. |
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PHA Comments |
John Nelson, PHA, asked if they have experience with tenant relocation. Mr. Diamond said they are currently working on the master plan for the HOPE XI grant in Jacksonville. They want something that will allow people to move with dignity. They are currently working on a 200-unit apartment complex in Jacksonville. They have developed around 4,000 low-income tax credit units, and are one of the largest developers of this type in the State. |
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City Commission Questions & Comments |
Commissioner Brown said their fire department's capacity is to reach either the 6th or 7th floor of a building; if they build a building higher than that, will they be willing to help the City upgrade its fire equipment? Mr. Diamond said they chose 7 stories as their tallest height to match the fire department's equipment capabilities and city's current building codes. He believes it is the City Commission’s responsibility to take the new tax revenues generated by the development and upgrade their fire equipment. |
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Commissioner-Elect Kitchens asked about the poor who fish the riverfront for food. Mr. Ashdji said the riverfront park belongs to the City. Per her question, they have no plans to purchase the City Hall and Annex buildings along N. 2nd Street; they are only showing infrastructure development, which creates incentives for development. They aren't saying what should be done, but what could be done. She asked if they would be interested in doing historic renovation on the 100 Block buildings. Mr. Ferrell said they've looked at the buildings, and structurally, they are not sound. There are other buildings in town that should be restored and renovated. Those have been painted and repainted and changed structurally; they may consider keeping the facades, but not the structures. If it is important to the community, they will take a look at it. |
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Commissioner-Elect Kitchens asked if they would be willing to keep the marina exclusively on the north side of the bridge. Mr. Ashdji said some condo buyers would like to have the opportunity to have a boat slip on the south side of the river. They only show 150 units on the south side, and 200 units on the north side. |
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As to closing Memorial Drive, they'd like to keep the first street area open and close the portion along the 100 blocks for festivals. As to the Blue Crab Festival committee, they have not yet met with their people, but intend to. As to similar projects, the citizens don't want to look like St. Augustine or Jacksonville. Mr. Ashdji said this project won't look like St. Augustine or anyplace else. As to whether or not the 7-story buildings will block the view of the buildings behind it, Mr. Diamond said the buildings along St. Johns Avenue will have balconies, which will enable folks to look down St. Johns Avenue. |
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Commissioner-Elect Kitchens said many who own businesses along St. Johns Avenue don't want the view of the river from St. Johns Avenue blocked. Mr. Ferrell said they can't put up a pier, and that is outside the scope of the work, but they would encourage the City to erect it. A 40 sq. ft. building at the end of a pier wouldn't detract from the river view at all. |
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Len Freeman asked what experience they have with working with tax increment districts. Mr. Diamond said they have extensive experience in that area and have been working with tax increment districts in numerous cities for 25 years. |
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Mr. Freeman asked if they have had experience in working with communities that have large festivals with some frequency. Mr. Ashdji said his hotel is here on the waterfront and they handle those functions as they come. They are familiar with large functions. |
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Michelle Jeansonne asked as to the issue of their tax returns and financial statements for the past three years. Mr. Ashdji said he brought with him three years' personal tax returns, but would appreciate it if he can withhold the last year, as it is not final, and he does not want it to become a public document yet. |
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As to incorporating public input, Mr. Ashdji said they will hold public meetings. In 98% of the time, they solve the public's issues, but 2% of the time they don't. They will address all public issues. The height is not really negotiable; they need to have a project that is financially sound, and need a certain height to do so. They are complying with current zoning laws. |
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As to working with the private sector to incorporate downtown structures, the front structure will be seven stories, and the adjacent buildings will be four and three stories. It is possible that other existing buildings will want to add stories. He'd like downtown businesses to voice their concerns in the selection of merchants. They don't want to directly compete with downtown merchants. The more successful this project is, the more successful the adjoining properties will be. |
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PUBLIC COMMENTS |
Christy Sanford, 312 Dodge Street, said there is something between a mobile home and a $750,000 condo. She is curious as to their thinking on the mid-range housing. They seem to be eliminating the middle class. She asked if they are going to take any existing green space, and are they going to improve the riverfront park. |
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Mr. Ashdji said as to condos, they won't be offering anything for $750,000, but will engage a company to determine what the market price is, and size the units accordingly. The lower the price, the larger the sphere of buyers. In the end, they want to sell this unit out. They will get down as low as they can. As for green space, the target area does not include any green space, but they have proposed to give the City $250,000 to enhance the Park. |
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David Kaiser, 343 West River Road, Palatka, said the Downtown Riverfront Development is just as important to the people outside the downtown as those in downtown. If you take a look at the pier, the intent is to allow the average citizen to be out over the water and have an extended view of the river, and be out over the river. As to public comments, he encourages the team to work with the Downtown Redevelopment Committee as they will have major input in this, and represent a cross section of the citizens. Mr. Ferrell said they are very flexible. They can't incorporate 10,000 differing views, but they can come close. They encourage the City and residents to work through the panel. |
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Rev. Bob Bronkema, 123 S. 2nd Street, Pastor of 1st Presbyterian Church, said what they do will have a direct impact on Church property. He is shocked by the difference between the two presentations; this one is very high-powered. The other was more low-key and not as lengthy. He asked how much input the will community have with this development team? He fears they won't have as much with this group. He hopes they will deal with more groups than just this panel. His other concern is economic. |
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Mr. Ferrell said as to the presentation, this is the format they were asked to present. They are not flashy people, but 'the spouting whale gets the harpoon' so to speak. The City owns the property; they can't do anything unless the City says they can. They can be slowed down, toned down, or whatever. They aren't trying to overwhelm anyone, but are trying to put their best foot forward. They encourage everyone to check their references and speak to those cities they have worked with in the past. His job is to listen to what they want to do. They want to manage expectations. The mission of the churches and community need to be communicated to them. They aren't patting themselves on the back, but want to show them that whatever the Community can come up with, they can build for them. |
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Mr. Ashdji said he can provide them with the names of people who had objections in the St. Augustine project, and they can call them to determine if he answered their objections satisfactorily. |
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Adjourn – City Commission meeting |
As the developer interviews had concluded, the meeting of the Palatka City Commission was adjourned at 6:07 p.m. upon a motion by Commissioner Azula, seconded by Commissioner Norwood. Chairman Freeman called for a short intermission of the Team's meeting. |
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Call to Order |
Mr. Freeman called the meeting of the Team back to order at 6:16 p.m. and there was discussion on when to turn in developer score sheets. He noted the City Attorney had some questions and instructions for the Team. |
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Don Holmes, City Attorney, said the score sheets will be collected tonight and the results will be presented by the Team at the City Commission meeting on January 12, but the developer recommendation won't be presented to the City Commission until January 26th. At that time the City Commission will make its own ranking in a public format. It is his understanding that once the City has ranked the developers, the Commission will begin the process of fine-tuning a plan and will try to enter into an agreement with a developer with the highest rank. If that is successful, they will enter into a developer agreement with the highest-ranking developer and move forward. If that is unsuccessful, the City will then begin negotiations with the 2nd ranked developer. They are not considering drawings or designs at this time, but are concentrating on qualifications. Two of the members of this Team have voiced strong statements of advocacy, one for each developer, and this requires him to ask if there are any conflicts of interest that should be declared by members of this Team. Per the question, Ms. Jeansonne said they were required to sign “no conflict” statements early in this process. Per Mr. Freeman, those have been turned in. As to when interview score sheets should be turned in, Mr. Holmes said it is his opinion that all score sheets should be turned in before team member leave this meeting in order to ensure that no influence outside this public meeting was considered by Team members when filling out their sheets. |
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Mr. Taylor said they could not objectively answer question No. 1 as it is not clear in his mind as to whether or not these documents were received. There was consensus from the group likewise. Linda Myers moved to strike question no. 1 from the score sheet. Mr. Taylor seconded the motion, which passed unopposed. |
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It was noted that Team members Randy Braddy and Michael Curtis both left with their rating sheets during the intermission. Two other team members left, but turned in their score sheets. Mr. Miles moved to direct remaining Team members to turn in all remaining score sheets before leaving the Center, and to have Staff retrieve Mr. Braddy's and Mr. Curtis' score sheets as soon as possible. Mr. Melfi seconded the motion, which passed unopposed. Mr. Freeman noted his opposition to having to turn score sheets in tonight, but said he accepts Mr. Holmes' opinion. |
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As to the question, the Clerk noted the score sheets will be tallied in the City Manager's office in the morning by herself and Mr. Bush. Consensus to have Margaret Vietti and Ray Hall participate in the process as to oversight of the tabulation of rankings. It was noted they cannot both be present at the same time, and will need to come at different times. The Clerk asked that they both contact her as to the times they can come in tomorrow, at the latest. |
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Mr. Taylor said he does not recall signing any "conflict of interest" statement and noted that it is possible that other members also have not signed one. They all need to sign one. Mr. Freeman said the statements they signed were given to Cathy Butler. He asked the Clerk to ask the City Attorney to prepare another "non-conflict" statement to be signed by all members. |
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Date of Next Meeting |
Chairman Freeman noted the date of their next meeting is scheduled for January 23 at 11:30 p.m. at City Hall. Mrs. Vietti stated that she has a conflict with Monday meetings and would like the Team to look at changing the standing meeting date. Mr. Freeman said they will schedule the topic on the next meeting agenda. |
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Adjourn Team meeting |
Chairman Freeman adjourned the meeting of the 5-year Downtown Redevelopment Planning Team at 6:34 p.m. |
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